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::: [[User:Aquatiki]] has a slightly better system and makes use of robots. You may want to talk to him first before deciding to do it the way I've suggested. But if you decide to do it the way I've suggested I'm happy to give you some more help and share Visual Basic code with you if you think it might help
::: Cheers. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 12:29, 28 July 2008 (PDT)
Many thanks. Appreciate it. [[User:Bennylin|Bennylin]] 23:55, 28 July 2008 (PDT)
== Bureaucratship ==
Hi Graham. Since [[Special:Emailuser]] isn't currently working, I'll be happy to write my Christian beliefs and how I follow Jesus here. I was wondering if you've spoken to Prab about bureaucratship and who can become bureaucrats, since I would be happy to become one and help the community further. Will be waiting for a reply! Bye the way, I made some MediaWiki changes (still working on them) the other day, and was wondering what you thought of the top site notice. It should read "''Welcome to [[WikiChristian:About|WikiChristian]]! God bless''". Was wondering if I should change that. God bless, [[User:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">Ryan†Cross</font>]] ('''''[[User talk:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk</font>]]''''') 04:40, 29 July 2008 (PDT)
: Hi Ryan. Thanks for the message. I like the notice and think it's fine. I've emailed Prab and asked him about bureaucratship. Waiting for his reply still. I'm not sure exactly what the decision will be about new bureaucrats - just so you know, and so that we're being transparent - the things that have been on my mind about b'crats is (1) should there be a time period (e.g. 3 months) of use before being able to become one? (2) are there any important doctrinal beliefs that are considered important to be a b'crat? As you've probably noticed WikiChristian has an evangelical Protestant flavour - do we want to keep that in the bureaucrats or not? I'm not sure - but if we do, we certainly want b'crats to be very flexible and happy to accept other points of view from other Christians; if we don't, then we certainly want to still maintain at least the core value of accepting the Bible as God's word, but with the realization that there is a wide variety of interpretations of much of it. Anyway, just wanted to update you on the thinking - this thinking has been going on from before you asked the question about becoming a b'crat. So it might be a few more days wait or so. Sorry about that. If you want to put information about your Christian beliefs / walk on your user page then that's great; or alternatively you can email it to me at graham_grove at yahoo dot com dot au. Cheers, --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 15:19, 30 July 2008 (PDT)
:: Hi Ryan. I've heard from Prab about the matter of b'crats and we reckon that while WikiChristian is small enough there is no particular need for a specific defined process about b'crats, but simply a case by case decision can be made. Prab's keen on the ecumenical nature continuing and so we don't think we need any sort of denominational or theological requirements for b'crats other than that they be committed Christians - Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox etc - all are okay. (I think personally however that it is important that they do agree with the simple points of faith that are on the [[WikiChristian:Page Layout]] and [[Statement of Faith]] pages). Hence, we're happy for you to be a b'crat so long as you are a committed Christian, which I gather you are - is that right? --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 00:24, 31 July 2008 (PDT)
:::Yes, absolutely. Very good to hear all this, Graham. :-) So, I'll be writing up my beliefs, how I am as a Christian, ect. shortly. I'll just write is here, probably at [[User:RyanCross/Christian]]. Best, [[User:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">Ryan†Cross</font>]] ('''''[[User talk:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk</font>]]''''') 09:38, 31 July 2008 (PDT)
== Resurfacing ==
Dear Graham,
OK! I have resurfaced from my extended trip to the far side of the moon! I looked it up and I've done several hundred edits over on LyricWiki in the past week and my bot several hundred or more! Where was I?! I've lost my barrings over here on WC and I'm wonder where I should tackle next? Should I start moving pages? Creating pages? Perfecting [[Bible:John 1:1]] still? Where were we? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 16:44, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
: Hope you've had fun on your travels. Good work on LyricWiki. I had a look at the system you've strated there with stars - its a really good system! --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 23:51, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
: But where to start here? Well, I reckon pefecting the [[Bible:John 1:1]] is the way to go and then to get the whole Bible onto WikiChristian and then delete the old Bible verse and chapter pages. That in itself is going to be a major, major task. Let me know if you think this is a good area to work on now. or whether you think another area has greater need. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 23:53, 1 August 2008 (PDT)
== [[User:BotUm]] is working ==
Greek pages are going up right now. On [[Special:Recentchanges]] just click ''show bots''. Latin, Hebrew and the two English versions will be even easier. Then I have to have it overwrite existing main-namespace pages with redirects and delete ..._(WEB) pages and Template:..._(WEB) pages. Does everything look good so far? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 17:59, 3 August 2008 (PDT)
: Everything looks brilliant so far. I don't know how you do it! The work you've done here, once complete, will make WikiChristian infinitely more useful. Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 22:48, 3 August 2008 (PDT)
:: I was right about to start creating [[Bible:John 1:2]] etc when I remembered, where should the [[John 1:1 (discussion)]] link point on new pages? [[John 1:1 (discussion)]] or [[Bible:John 1:1 (discussion)]]? Do we want those showing up in [[Special:Random]] (i.e. articles) or [[Special:Random/Bible]] (random verses/chapters)? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 01:31, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
::: Good question. I think it should be at: [[Bible:John 1:1 (discussion)]]. Do you agree? By the way, your work with your bot has been fantastic. I've been watching it with eager interest. I've also been watching you working over at ReformedWord. Wow - that's what comes to mind! --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 01:52, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
:::: Flattery will get you nowhere! I haven't seen a (discussion) page from a verse/chapter yet, but I assume it has a big, fat link back to the verse/chapter, so that'd be fine to have in Bible:. I'll go brush up on my deletion algorithms and get back to work. --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 02:33, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
:::: Will you check [[Bible:John 1:2]] before I proceed? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 02:51, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
::::: A few little changes. Added some underscores in place. Moved the translations up a slot. What do you reckon? If you're happy with it, go for it. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 03:25, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
::::::: Quick, [[Bible:John 1:3]]! Bot is running and I need to go to work? Can I leave it running as it? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 03:32, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
:::::::: Perfect. Let it go for it. Enjoy work. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 03:40, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
== My Christian beliefs ==
Hi there. You suggested I tell my Christian beliefs before I become a bureaucrat, so it can now be seen at [[User:RyanCross/Christian]]. Best, [[User:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">Ryan†Cross</font>]] ('''''[[User talk:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk</font>]]''''') 00:12, 4 August 2008 (PDT)
:[http://www.wikichristian.org/index.php?title=User_talk:RyanCross/Christian&diff=344992&oldid=344813 I answered your questions]. -- [[User:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">Ryan†Cross</font>]] ('''''[[User talk:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk</font>]]''''') 16:53, 4 August 2008 (PDT)
== The Next (destructive) Phase ==
OK! The next stage in this test match (of John) is to ''delete'' all the ..._(WEB) pages. Look [http://www.wikichristian.org/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=John&namespace=0 here] and you can see the beginning. Shall I begin? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 11:14, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
: Yep. Go for the destruction. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 11:17, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
:: The rest'll have to wait til I get home. My remote desktop app just died. I'll get Um to finishing in about 4 hours. :( --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 11:39, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
::: No problems. No rush. Hope work is quiet. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 11:55, 6 August 2008 (PDT)
Next, (after this run is done), I propose to delete everything beginning with "John" in the Template namespace (see [http://wikichristian.org/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=John&namespace=10]). Sound right? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 16:55, 6 August 2008 (PDT) <small>P.S. I just like to keep checking with you so that I'm never worried I'm doing something wrong ... a thousand times!</small>
: Go for it. It's helpful for me to see how you're going about this process. Double checks are always useful anyway especially when its an automated process. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 02:35, 7 August 2008 (PDT)
: I'm leaving for work again. When I get back, Um will create '''''or overwrite''''' all pages in the main namespace (John 10:10-John 9:9 as the bots count) with <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[John XX:XX]]</nowiki>. Yes? Then John will be done ... right? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 03:29, 7 August 2008 (PDT)
:: Yep. Except I imagine you mean to over-write with <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Bible:John XX:XX]]</nowiki>. Sounds good. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 03:32, 7 August 2008 (PDT)
::: OK! The final, smashing, destructive step is underway! --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 17:05, 7 August 2008 (PDT)
== OK, Time for Quality-Process Improvement ==
Hey Graham,
Now is the time to let me know about anything you seen wrong with the John process as it went or the pages as they stand. Barring any corrections that we need Um to do, I will do Genesis without stopping after every, little thing. Then, if that worked out, I'll do the whole NT, then the OT. --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 03:59, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
: Hi Robert. I haven't noticed any big problems at all. Seems to have worked very well. A few times the Greek text isn't quite right (I think that applies to verses that have variants). So, I say, let's go for it! Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 05:51, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
:: What Greek are you comparing it to?
:: I'm soooo tired (I've work 37 out of the last 38 days) that I'm gonna fall asleep. I start Genesis in the morning. G'night! --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 05:55, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
::: Whoa. 37 out of 38 days! That's a lot of work. Sleep. Rest. (I'll find one of the very few examples where the Greek didn't quite work and I'll put a link to it here. But you'll see that it's no big deal). Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 06:05, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
::: Okay, it took me ages to find one of the pages where the Greek wasn't quite right, which just goes to show how few bad pages there are. But here's one of them: [[Greek:John 20:21]]. By the way, I see that Um is on his way with Genesis. Excellent. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 11:47, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
:::: That was a tricky one. Normally, the text uses {} to denote textual variates, but that time they used []. I have added a catch for that and will get BotUm to fix all those in John. Good catch. --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 13:54, 8 August 2008 (PDT)
== [[Bible Dictionary]] v [[Easton's Bible Dictionary]] ==
Do we really need two Bible dictionaries that say exactly the same thing? I'd like to delete the pages of Bible Dictionary that redirect to Easton's or have the same content if that's OK with you? [[User:Kathleen.wright5|Kathleen.wright5]] 00:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
: Good idea. Please do that. It's something I've been meaning to do for ages. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 03:36, 10 August 2008 (PDT)
== Question about John (EBD) ==
I know you have to backup when you're re-uploading the Gospel of John, but why has John (EBD) been changed to [[Backup: John (EBD)]] with a redirect to John (EBD)? I wanted to put it in the [[:Category:Apostles]]. [[User:Kathleen.wright5|Kathleen.wright5]] 00:53, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
: Hi Kathleen. Yeah, that was only named that in case something went wrong with the uploading of the Gospel of John. It can be moved back to the original name. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 03:31, 10 August 2008 (PDT)
== How'd It Go? ==
What do you think of Genesis? How can I improve the process? After this, I was thinking about uploading the whole NT at a time. It would be all the WEB, KJV, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Bible pages, redirects and then deletion, each one going all the way through and then starting on the next. How do things look from your end? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 23:25, 10 August 2008 (PDT)
: It seems to have gone very well to me - I can't see any major problems that have occurred. You've been very thorough and I reckon that importing the whole New Testament as you've done for John and Genesis would be excellent. I look forward to seeing Um do his work. I imagine once Um starts it will probably take a number of days to do it all? --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 11:42, 11 August 2008 (PDT)
:: Oh yes! And will start each chain off by hand. That is, I'll make one big files of all the KJV and tell it to start that. Then I'll make one big file of the WEB and tell it to start that, etc. etc. Each one will take 1 day-ish I guess. --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 13:37, 11 August 2008 (PDT)
== Wikibreak ==
Hi there. I just wanted to let you know I'll be taking a break from WikiChristian for a while. I wish this wiki all the best. I'll probably come in here and there. Thanks, [[User:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">Ryan†Cross</font>]] ('''''[[User talk:RyanCross|<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk</font>]]''''') 04:35, 19 August 2008 (PDT)
: Thanks for your help. Hope you have a nice break. --[[User:Cleaner|Cleaner]] 09:23, 19 August 2008 (PDT)
== Bot Halt ==
I see that BotUm has gotten stuck in Matthew for so reason. I will check it out when I get home in five hours. --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 11:00, 29 August 2008 (PDT)
: Thanks Robert for keeping a watch on him. What's next on the agenda. Delete the New Testament WEB pages and WEB templates and overwrite the New Testament pages with redirects to the Bible namespace? Or upload the Greek and Hebrew Old Testament and Apocrypha? Oh, by the way, I'm fiddling with ideas for how to do the chapter pages. What are your thoughts and ideas for the chapter pages. Also, do you think the chapter pgaes are best in the Bible namespace or the main namespace? I'm thinking that they might be best in the main namespace. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 13:32, 29 August 2008 (PDT)
:: I was gonna finish all my uploading first, so that the pages we make look their best first. As for the chapters, how much material are they supposed to have on them? Seems to me like they will be as spartan as the verse pages until people take a special interest in editing one of them. I think this is 3500 hundred pages that'll clog up the main namespace, but you decide. Can you point me to a good example one of these for me to pattern after? --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 13:36, 29 August 2008 (PDT)
::: I'm not hugely fussed either way. In the main namespace there's two advantages - people will come across them with the "random page" function and so may add something; also you don't get a chapter when you click "random verse" if they are in the main namespace. The disadvantage, like you say, is 3500 empty pages that will come up on clicking "random page".
:::: Some examples of the chapter pages are: [[Backup:John 11]], [[Backup:Matthew 16]], [[Backup:Genesis 1]], [[Backup:Mark 1]], [[Backup:Luke 15]] and [[Backup:Luke 10]]. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 13:52, 29 August 2008 (PDT)
== Linking to the Bible pages ==
Hi Graham. So I'm starting to work on some apologetics pages, and while I know you wanted to have the Scripture references link to the Bible pages, I'm not sure it's feasible. I assume WikiChristian doesn't have the Bible Gateway feature of being able to link to a specific passage, e.g. <some book> 2:20-3:5, and that there's only individual verse and chapter pages?
If the passage in question is just one verse, I could link to the corresponding Bible page, though it seems a bit inconsistent if the other links are to Bible Gateway.
Sorry if I'm being too detail-oriented; I work on user interfaces as part of my real-life job, so I get paid to worry about details and consistency and that sort of thing. :-)
Oh, and thanks for making me a sysop.
--[[User:India|india]] 15:31, 18 September 2008 (PDT)
: That's correct about only linking to either individual verses or whole chapters. Feel free to link how you want. You could consider linking like this [[Luke 2]]:26-38 but you do what you think works best. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 10:01, 19 September 2008 (PDT)
== Cleaner inserting redlinks ==
Could you please tell Cleaner not to insert redlinks at the end of EBD pages. I've just removed some from pages (see recent changes). [[User:Kathleen.wright5|Kathleen.wright5]] 23:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
: You don't like red-links? Fair enough - we'll make no more red-links in the EBD pages. Remember though that the Easton Bible Dictionary pages aren't meant to be the information article for a topic. For example, [[Jesus]] is the main article on Jesus, and it links to the Easton's Bible Dictionary page on Jesus ([[Jesus (EBD)]]) in its info-box on the right hand side. Ultimately WikiChristian aims to have independent information articles for every topic and these will link to their appropriate Easton's Bible Dictionary page or Matthew Henry Commentary page etc. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 04:13, 3 October 2008 (PDT)
:: By the way I think you are doing a great job with your cleaning up of the EBD pages and linking to other EBD pages. So thank you heaps for your hard work. I have noticed that you are linking to wikipedia sometimes through the EBD pages. What do you reckon about holding off on links to Wikipedia from within the EBD arciles themselves? (Ideally I think that all links within WikiChristian should be internal, unless they are under the ==Links== section of an information article - see [[WikiChristian:Page Layout]]). What are your thoughts? --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 04:18, 3 October 2008 (PDT)
::: I thought I was adding value with links to Wikipedia (e.g [[wikipedia:Knights Hospitallers|Knights Hospitallers]] and [[wikipedia:Crusades|Crusades]]), but if you think its inappropriate I'll stop. I'm also doing the same thing at [[Wikipedia:Wikisource|Wikisource]] through Wikisource:WikiProject Bible dictionaries, where there are only 2 active members me and [[User:Carlaude|Carlaude]] [[User:Kathleen.wright5|Kathleen.wright5]] 08:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:::: I think you've been doing an outstanding job with the cleaning up and linking you've been doing and that you should be proud of what you've done. I guess I'm just trying to think about WikiChristian's future. In my mind it is better that we link internally in WikiChristian to the [[Knights Hospitallers]] and [[Crusades]] rather than to Wikipedia's version - even if these articles don't exist currently in WikiChristian, hopefully they will in the future. If you are very keen on continuing to inter-link into wikipedia and wikisource then feel free to continue doing so, but if you are happy to hold-off on any inter-linking then I think that would be even better. But you decide what you think is best, given that you are the main person working on the EBD pages. Oh, by the way, the EBD pages are likely to be moved in the near future - see my discussion with Robert above about a new name-space '''Text'''. Thanks once again Kathleen. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 12:48, 3 October 2008 (PDT)
== Created namespace ==
The <code>TEXT</code> namespace has been created. --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 13:13, 3 October 2008 (PDT)
: Brilliant. Thanks Robert. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 13:17, 3 October 2008 (PDT)
== Lost it ==
I commented in EBD. Where was our mock-up of a chapter page? I'm trying to program it now, but I can't remember where we'd made a model ... --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 13:24, 4 October 2008 (PDT)
: Sorry it's taking me so long to respond. For some reason WikiChristian seems to have slowed down to an absolute snail-pace over here. Everything else on the internet is working fine. Is the problem happening to you too? If not then I wonder why it is happening to me. I can't remember where the chapter page is, but I'll look for it and let you know as soon as I find it. Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 13:28, 4 October 2008 (PDT)
::Found it [[Bible:John 1:1/sandbox]]!!
== Try [[Genesis 1]] ==
and let me know, quick! --[[User:Aquatiki|Aquatiki]] 15:45, 4 October 2008 (PDT)
: Excellent. That looks great! Nothing needs changing. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 15:48, 4 October 2008 (PDT)
== Quick question ==
Graham,
I am helping a Aussie based Christian ministry expand their internet effectiveness. I am also doing the same for a couple of notable American ministries. I was wondering if I could speak to you in private regarding a matter. Do you have Skype, Yahoo IM, or AIM and if so could we please have a quick and cordial chat. [[User:Theologian|Theologian]] 23:49, 7 October 2008 (PDT)
: Hi. Probably the easiest way to get in contact with me is simply through my email address. Sorry that it isn't quite as quick as skyping or something similar. My email is grahamlgrove at gmail dot com. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 10:21, 8 October 2008 (PDT)
== Backup Namespace ==
Is it OK to remove Backup:Name of page pages? [[User:Kathleen.wright5|Kathleen.wright5]] 11:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
: Only if you transfer the relevant commentary content of them into the appropriate bible chapter page first. So yep, go for that if you want. Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove|Graham grove]] 12:10, 10 October 2008 (PDT)