Talk:Grace - Revision history

Benedikt at 21:25, 18 July 2008

2008-07-18T21:25:49Z

Graham grove at 21:17, 18 July 2008

2008-07-18T21:17:48Z

Benedikt at 21:08, 18 July 2008

2008-07-18T21:08:33Z

Graham grove at 21:02, 18 July 2008

2008-07-18T21:02:59Z

Benedikt: New page: == "Only through Jesus Christ" == I can't edit this article. The clause: ''It is only through faith in Jesus Christ, in his death and resurrection, that we can return to God.'' is imo a li...

2008-07-18T20:56:16Z

New page: == "Only through Jesus Christ" == I can't edit this article. The clause: ''It is only through faith in Jesus Christ, in his death and resurrection, that we can return to God.'' is imo a li...

New page

== "Only through Jesus Christ" ==
I can't edit this article. The clause: ''It is only through faith in Jesus Christ, in his death and resurrection, that we can return to God.'' is imo a little misunderstanding. First, the cited bible verses doesn't support the "only". Secondly, it is a contradiction to the aforementioned ''Although nothing we do can restore us to a right relationship with God, God himself restores that relationship.'' because it says that "our faith" saves us. I would change it to the following. ''Although nothing we do can restore us to a right relationship with God, his grace himself restores that relationship. Only through this grace to which faith in Jesus Christ is the answer and which is applied <small>(maybe a better word here)</small> through his death and resurrection, we can return to God.''
It should be also noted that for some not only faith but also works are the human answer to the grace of god. --[[User:Benedikt|Benedikt]] 13:56, 18 July 2008 (PDT)

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	:::I agree that the focus shouldn't be on the justification debate in this article. Regarding the justification debate, I think there needs to be room for the various points of view of different denominations at WikiChristian. You'll probably be interested in looking at [[Wikichristian.org:Page Layout]] and [[Statement of Faith]] - I think that leaves room for Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians to all contribute, and to leave their own personal opinion articles. --[[User:Graham grove\|Graham grove]] 14:17, 18 July 2008 (PDT)		:::I agree that the focus shouldn't be on the justification debate in this article. Regarding the justification debate, I think there needs to be room for the various points of view of different denominations at WikiChristian. You'll probably be interested in looking at [[Wikichristian.org:Page Layout]] and [[Statement of Faith]] - I think that leaves room for Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians to all contribute, and to leave their own personal opinion articles. --[[User:Graham grove\|Graham grove]] 14:17, 18 July 2008 (PDT)
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		+	::::Thanks a lot. You have very good guidelines. Clear and open at the same time. --[[User:Benedikt\|Benedikt]] 14:25, 18 July 2008 (PDT)

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	::Absolutely tricky. It is even more tricky to avoid the justification debate at that point and leave the article open to both sides. The current version is fine, I think. --[[User:Benedikt\|Benedikt]] 14:08, 18 July 2008 (PDT)		::Absolutely tricky. It is even more tricky to avoid the justification debate at that point and leave the article open to both sides. The current version is fine, I think. --[[User:Benedikt\|Benedikt]] 14:08, 18 July 2008 (PDT)
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		+	:::I agree that the focus shouldn't be on the justification debate in this article. Regarding the justification debate, I think there needs to be room for the various points of view of different denominations at WikiChristian. You'll probably be interested in looking at [[Wikichristian.org:Page Layout]] and [[Statement of Faith]] - I think that leaves room for Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians to all contribute, and to leave their own personal opinion articles. --[[User:Graham grove\|Graham grove]] 14:17, 18 July 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:08, 18 July 2008
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	: Yep, I see the contradiction. It's tricky to word well isn't it. I've tried rewording it so that it doesn't contradict and makes sense. Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove\|Graham grove]] 14:02, 18 July 2008 (PDT)		: Yep, I see the contradiction. It's tricky to word well isn't it. I've tried rewording it so that it doesn't contradict and makes sense. Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove\|Graham grove]] 14:02, 18 July 2008 (PDT)
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		+	::Absolutely tricky. It is even more tricky to avoid the justification debate at that point and leave the article open to both sides. The current version is fine, I think. --[[User:Benedikt\|Benedikt]] 14:08, 18 July 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:02, 18 July 2008
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	I can't edit this article. The clause: ''It is only through faith in Jesus Christ, in his death and resurrection, that we can return to God.'' is imo a little misunderstanding. First, the cited bible verses doesn't support the "only". Secondly, it is a contradiction to the aforementioned ''Although nothing we do can restore us to a right relationship with God, God himself restores that relationship.'' because it says that "our faith" saves us. I would change it to the following. ''Although nothing we do can restore us to a right relationship with God, his grace himself restores that relationship. Only through this grace to which faith in Jesus Christ is the answer and which is applied <small>(maybe a better word here)</small> through his death and resurrection, we can return to God.''		I can't edit this article. The clause: ''It is only through faith in Jesus Christ, in his death and resurrection, that we can return to God.'' is imo a little misunderstanding. First, the cited bible verses doesn't support the "only". Secondly, it is a contradiction to the aforementioned ''Although nothing we do can restore us to a right relationship with God, God himself restores that relationship.'' because it says that "our faith" saves us. I would change it to the following. ''Although nothing we do can restore us to a right relationship with God, his grace himself restores that relationship. Only through this grace to which faith in Jesus Christ is the answer and which is applied <small>(maybe a better word here)</small> through his death and resurrection, we can return to God.''
	It should be also noted that for some not only faith but also works are the human answer to the grace of god. --[[User:Benedikt\|Benedikt]] 13:56, 18 July 2008 (PDT)		It should be also noted that for some not only faith but also works are the human answer to the grace of god. --[[User:Benedikt\|Benedikt]] 13:56, 18 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	: Yep, I see the contradiction. It's tricky to word well isn't it. I've tried rewording it so that it doesn't contradict and makes sense. Thanks. --[[User:Graham grove\|Graham grove]] 14:02, 18 July 2008 (PDT)