User talk:Draig goch20 - Revision history

Draig goch20: answer

2005-08-13T00:40:12Z

answer

Muser: /* Should Religion and politics mix? */

2005-07-23T07:45:19Z

‎Should Religion and politics mix?

Draig goch20 at 22:20, 24 June 2005

2005-06-24T22:20:44Z

Draig goch20 at 14:37, 12 March 2005

2005-03-12T14:37:39Z

Draig goch20 at 08:12, 11 March 2005

2005-03-11T08:12:43Z

Prab at 23:03, 10 March 2005

2005-03-10T23:03:19Z

Prab at 23:01, 10 March 2005

2005-03-10T23:01:39Z

Prab at 22:57, 10 March 2005

2005-03-10T22:57:39Z

Draig goch20 at 22:37, 10 March 2005

2005-03-10T22:37:57Z

Draig goch20 at 22:33, 10 March 2005

2005-03-10T22:33:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:40, 13 August 2005
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	[[User:Muser\|Muser]] 23 July		[[User:Muser\|Muser]] 23 July
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		+	Personally I believe that neither Christ nor the Holy Father likes a liar! The worst liars on Earth are politicians. They lie like running water, and when they found out, that water turns red. You see, the Christian religion is meant to teach honesty, and if that is the case, then a politician should keep his religion to himself, and basically declare his morals more than his religion. Think what you want, but I believe this strong.
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		+	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 17:40, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)

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	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 15:20, 24 Jun 2005 (PDT)		[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 15:20, 24 Jun 2005 (PDT)
		+
		+
		+	----
		+
		+
		+	Why do you believe this? Your religious beliefs affect your entire life surely? If because of his religious beliefs, a politician believes, for example, that gambling is wrong, then by your logic, how should he vote if there is a bill to legalize gambling? I don't see why he shouldn't be able to follow his conscious and vote against the bill... I definitely disagree with your opinion. A politicians should be able to follow his religious beliefs in his working life. If the people don't like it, then they can vote him out of office. I believe that God calls us to live Godly lives in our personal lives as well as in our public and work lives.
		+
		+	We should move this discussion into a page entitled [[Religion and politics]] I think
		+
		+
		+	[[User:Muser\|Muser]] 23 July

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:20, 24 June 2005
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	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)		[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
		+
		+
		+	== Should Religion and politics mix? ==
		+
		+	I have a personal belief that religion and politics should not mix. I believe that the use of Christian belief in politics is wrong. Religion is personal and should only be shared in a worship environment. I am interested in other peoples views?
		+
		+	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 15:20, 24 Jun 2005 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:37, 12 March 2005
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−	I would like to ~~say something~~ to those ignorant people who think we treat Jesus as a God. Jesus is and still is only the son of God. He was given that position by his father. People on this site who says that the lord claimed to be God are wrong.	+	If you would like to leave me any comments, please feel free to post them here.

−	If you read in the bible, especially in the book of revelation, you will notice "God and his Christ", which means in simple terms, God and his coming earthly representative, Jesus. People who put words into the lords mouth, are people I have no time for. Jesus and God are like two seperate people, as an example.	+	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 06:37, 12 Mar 2005 (PST)
−
−	~~God bless you all~~
−
−	~~Best Regards~~
−
−	~~[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 10:33, 6 Mar 2005 (PST)~~
−
−	~~-------~~
−
−	Errr...we do treat Jesus as God. That is one of the basic tenants of Christianity. John 10.22-30 has Jesus stating, "I and the father are one," in addition John 1.1 states that the Word (ie, Christ) existed with God in the Beginning and that the Word (ie, Christ) actually WAS God.
−
−	Just some thoughts. I'd be interested in hearing why you think people who treat Jesus as God are ignorant, since the Bible says exactly that in several places. Not really trying to start and arguement here. I'm just intested in hearing why you said what you said.
−
−	~~[[User:Cpark\|Cpark]] 17:57, 6 Mar 2005 (PST)~~
−	~~-------~~
−	People constantly tell me that there is only one God, if our lord is God then that would make two wouldn't it? I believe that Jesus meant that "I and the father are one" as "One family" not "One person". but thats just me. I did not put this here to cause arguments, but to make aware that some people have taken Jesus's teachings differently. P.S. What I meant with "ignorant people" is, people in other religions using Jesus is God to start nasty argumentative debates, but I didn't mean to direct it to fellow Christians. That was my baddy, sorry.
−
−	~~God Bless and best regards,~~
−	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] ~~14:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)~~
−
−
−	~~----~~
−	~~Hi,~~
−	I think we need to understand one important principle fundamental to Christianity, in order to understand whether Jesus is God or he is just a "representative" on Earth. And that principle is "Trinity".
−
−	~~Read this article on '''Understanding the Trinity'''~~
−
−	~~--------------------------------------------------------------------------------~~
−
−	~~'''By Matt Perman'''~~
−
−	"The doctrine of the Trinity is foundational to the Christian faith. It is crucial for properly understanding what God is like, how He relates to us, and how we should relate to Him. But it is also something that raises many difficult questions. How can God be both one and three? Is the Trinity a contradiction? If Jesus is God, why do the Gospels record instances where He prayed to God?
−
−	While we cannot fully understand everything about the Trinity (or anything else), it is possible to answer questions like these and come to a solid grasp of what it means for God to be three in one. The goal of this booklet is to be a means to these ends.
−
−	~~What Does it Mean That God is a Trinity?~~
−
−	The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.
−
−	The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. The Bible speaks of the Father as God (Phil. 1:2), the Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3-4). Are these just three different ways of looking at God, or simply ways of referring to three different roles that God plays?
−
−	The answer must be no, because the Bible also indicates that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), He cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son.
−
−	In the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from heaven and the Spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove as Jesus comes out of the water (Mark 1:10-11). In John 1:1 it is affirmed that Jesus is God and, at the same time, that He was “with God”—thereby indicating that Jesus is a distinct Person from God the Father (cf. also 1:18). And in John 16:13-15 we see that although there is a close unity between them all, the Holy Spirit is also distinct from the Father and the Son.
−
−	The fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons means, in other words, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Jesus is God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but He is not the Son or the Father. They are different Persons, not three different ways of looking at God.
−
−	The personhood of each member of the Trinity means that each Person has a distinct center of consciousness. Thus, they relate to each other personally—the Father regards Himself as “I,” while He regards the Son and Holy Spirit as “You.” Likewise the Son regards Himself as “I,” but the Son and the Holy Spirit as “You.”
−
−	Often it is objected that “If Jesus is God, then he must have prayed to himself while he was on earth.” But the answer to this objection lies in simply applying what we have already seen. While Jesus and the Father are both God, they are different Persons. Thus, Jesus prayed to God the Father without praying to Himself. In fact, it is precisely the continuing dialog between the Father and the Son (Matthew 3:17; 17:5; John 5:19; 11:41-42; 17:1ff) which furnishes the best evidence that they are distinct Persons with distinct centers of consciousness."
−
−	~~Read the entire article below~~
−
−	~~[http~~:~~//www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/trinity.html Understanding the Trinity - Matt Perman]~~
−
−	~~-Prab, March~~, ~~11/05.~~
−
−	~~------~~
−	~~'''Thanks for your help'''~~
−
−	~~The website there helps, thanks,~~
−	~~God Bless and Best Regards,~~
−
−	~~[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 00:~~12~~, 11~~ Mar 2005 (PST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:12, 11 March 2005
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	-Prab, March, 11/05.		-Prab, March, 11/05.
		+
		+	------
		+	'''Thanks for your help'''
		+
		+	The website there helps, thanks,
		+	God Bless and Best Regards,
		+
		+	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 00:12, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:03, 10 March 2005
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	[http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/trinity.html Understanding the Trinity - Matt Perman]		[http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/trinity.html Understanding the Trinity - Matt Perman]
−	-Prab	+
		+	-Prab, March, 11/05.

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 ----
 Hi,
-I think we need to understand one important priciple fundamental to Christianity in order to understand if Jesus is God or he is a "representative". And that is understanding "Trinity".
+I think we need to understand one important principle fundamental to Christianity, in order to understand whether Jesus is God or he is just a "representative" on Earth. And that principle is "Trinity".
 "The doctrine of the Trinity is foundational to the Christian faith. It is crucial for properly understanding what God is like, how He relates to us, and how we should relate to Him. But it is also something that raises many difficult questions. How can God be both one and three? Is the Trinity a contradiction? If Jesus is God, why do the Gospels record instances where He prayed to God?

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:57, 10 March 2005
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	God Bless and best regards,		God Bless and best regards,
	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 14:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)		[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 14:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)
		+
		+
		+	----
		+	Hi,
		+	I think we need to understand one important priciple fundamental to Christianity in order to understand if Jesus is God or he is a "representative". And that is understanding "Trinity".
		+
		+	"The doctrine of the Trinity is foundational to the Christian faith. It is crucial for properly understanding what God is like, how He relates to us, and how we should relate to Him. But it is also something that raises many difficult questions. How can God be both one and three? Is the Trinity a contradiction? If Jesus is God, why do the Gospels record instances where He prayed to God?
		+
		+	While we cannot fully understand everything about the Trinity (or anything else), it is possible to answer questions like these and come to a solid grasp of what it means for God to be three in one. The goal of this booklet is to be a means to these ends.
		+
		+	What Does it Mean That God is a Trinity?
		+
		+	The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.
		+
		+	The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. The Bible speaks of the Father as God (Phil. 1:2), the Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3-4). Are these just three different ways of looking at God, or simply ways of referring to three different roles that God plays?
		+
		+	The answer must be no, because the Bible also indicates that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), He cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son.
		+
		+	In the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from heaven and the Spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove as Jesus comes out of the water (Mark 1:10-11). In John 1:1 it is affirmed that Jesus is God and, at the same time, that He was “with God”—thereby indicating that Jesus is a distinct Person from God the Father (cf. also 1:18). And in John 16:13-15 we see that although there is a close unity between them all, the Holy Spirit is also distinct from the Father and the Son.
		+
		+	The fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons means, in other words, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Jesus is God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but He is not the Son or the Father. They are different Persons, not three different ways of looking at God.
		+
		+	The personhood of each member of the Trinity means that each Person has a distinct center of consciousness. Thus, they relate to each other personally—the Father regards Himself as “I,” while He regards the Son and Holy Spirit as “You.” Likewise the Son regards Himself as “I,” but the Son and the Holy Spirit as “You.”
		+
		+	Often it is objected that “If Jesus is God, then he must have prayed to himself while he was on earth.” But the answer to this objection lies in simply applying what we have already seen. While Jesus and the Father are both God, they are different Persons. Thus, Jesus prayed to God the Father without praying to Himself. In fact, it is precisely the continuing dialog between the Father and the Son (Matthew 3:17; 17:5; John 5:19; 11:41-42; 17:1ff) which furnishes the best evidence that they are distinct Persons with distinct centers of consciousness."
		+
		+	Read the entire article below
		+
		+	[http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/trinity.html Understanding the Trinity - Matt Perman]
		+	-Prab

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 [[User:Cpark|Cpark]] 17:57, 6 Mar 2005 (PST)
 -------
-People constantly tell me that there is only one God, if our lord is God then that would make two wouldn't it? I believe that Jesus meant that "I and the father are one" as "One family" not "One person". but thats just me. I did not put this here to cause arguments, but to make aware that some people have taken Jesus's teachings differently.
+People constantly tell me that there is only one God, if our lord is God then that would make two wouldn't it? I believe that Jesus meant that "I and the father are one" as "One family" not "One person". but thats just me. I did not put this here to cause arguments, but to make aware that some people have taken Jesus's teachings differently. P.S. What I meant with "ignorant people" is, people in other religions using Jesus is God to start nasty argumentative debates, but I didn't mean to direct it to fellow Christians. That was my baddy, sorry.
 God Bless and best regards,
 [[User:Draig goch20|Draig goch20]] 14:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:33, 10 March 2005
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	[[User:Cpark\|Cpark]] 17:57, 6 Mar 2005 (PST)		[[User:Cpark\|Cpark]] 17:57, 6 Mar 2005 (PST)
		+	-------
		+	People constantly tell me that there is only one God, if our lord is God then that would make two wouldn't it? I believe that Jesus meant that "I and the father are one" as "One family" not "One person". but thats just me. I did not put this here to cause arguments, but to make aware that some people have taken Jesus's teachings differently.
		+
		+	God Bless and best regards,
		+	[[User:Draig goch20\|Draig goch20]] 14:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)