User talk:Athrash

Quotes

An utterly ignorant or utterly lazy man, if possesed of a little ingenuity, can with the help of a dictionary and grammar give a word-for-word rendering, whether intelligible or not, and print 'Translation' on his title-page. On the other hand it is a melancholy spectacle to see men of high ability and undoubted scholarship toil and struggle at translation under a needless restriction to literality, as in intellectual handcuffs and fetters, when they might with advantage snap the bonds and fling them away ... — Preface, First Edition, July 1902: N.T. in Modern Speech by R.F. Weymouth.

More than any book in the New Testament this [Gospel of John] calls aloud for isolated study, that by candid, fearless, and reverent thinking its secret may stand disclosed. — Introduction, First American Edition, 1943: N.T. in Modern Speech by R.F. Weymouth; revised, J.A. Robertson.

He whose will and desire in conversation is to establish his own opinion, even though what he says is true, should recognize that he is sick with the devil's disease. And if he behaves like this only in conversation with his equals, then perhaps the rebuke of his superiors may heal him. But if he acts in this way even with those who are greater and wiser than he, then his malady is humanly incurable. — The Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus Step 4, paragraph 48.

About Me

Welcome, I arrived on my birthday, April 5, this being the 63rd recurrence. My primary concern is the Modernity Version of the New Testament, secondarily, the definition of omnificence, who, what and wherefore that unique word, and thirdly, could expand on Pharmacognosy. A vision from God appeared in my rain soaked study Bible in 1991. On the quoted Ladder of Divine Ascent, it must rank as a 10. I would consider myself eligible to moderate a spiritual Wikipedia project.

Project

We, the Wikipedia/WikiChristian Bible people translate/paraphrase the N.T. within the Weymouth tradition. I set the rules with the first two chapters of the Gospel of John and we see what develops as each verse starting with John 2:23 is up for edit. Unlock the secret, possibly, reverent thinking, definitely. THE RULES: Eliminate the seeming anti-semitism — appears to be regional strife — that is, Galilean against Judean supremacy. This requires Judean(s) for Jew(s). Racial epithets invariably are harsh sounds like the N word, Jew (boy), Wop, Slob, or Chink. "Jews" is emblematic, why not the more historically sound and melodic, Jew-dee-ans? There are 101 believes in John (KJV). Retain "believe" instead of Weymouth's "trust," "regards," or "convinced." The watchword could be I AM [That I Am] He, rather blasphemous in that day. Order of Gospels should be JOHN, MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, and ACTS. What better in the beginning than "In the beginning?" The Catholic Encyclopedia says John had sometimes been first in order in earlier times because of the surety of authorship (or statement of eye-witness account). The Epistles of Paul in historical order, is there a split Timothy movement, there is an outline in Weymouth? Make St. John, "the greatest marvel of all the world's literature," more literary and the most important letters in history more historical, if it happens, this would be a testament to the communion of minds available here and, come on, your particular verse may live forever. Change British spelling and Elizabethan phraseology of Weymouth (sometimes all that is required). Highlight Aramaic origin (at least once). Explain John 7:53, make consistent figures of speech and capitalization throughout, i.e. Life of the Ages (3rd edition Weymouth) = eternal Life (5th edition). I love John's theology, although his discourses are somewhat repetitious. Matthew, Mark and Luke are open source, you can discuss Alpha and Omega till Kingdom come and, wala, Wikibook? Gender neutral when possible. John is the Book of Signs, use "signs" for quoting that word when spoken and substitute, miracles, for the running commentary. Plan to reconstruct an icon "the truth" in Greek of the P52 fragment as the ultimate visual image of the earliest New Testament manuscript. Each new verse will follow Weymouth 5th edition, minor changes have already been made with problem words for the sake of consistency. Bracketed [text] is termed explanatory apposition or inline footnote, could be read not said. Need only three such notes in the Gospel of John, initiate the ultimate Word play, add a touch of the miraculous, and send everybody home. John as a Gospel evidences considerable play on words, punning, and irony, such irony they say, that the "very Christ" (7:26) is proclaiming the Word all about with total impunity.

An Actual Comment(s)

You know, the more common place to put this stuff is in your User Page, rather than your talk page. I'd move it for you, but you'd probably get mad. 64.198.97.66 19:17, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your courtesy. This is an experiment, I just finished the layout, you found it before I was ready to publicize. I am a newbie, so maybe I won't publish at all. I have to contact the initiator of John 20:16 and get his thoughts about Wikibook possibilities. Athrash 00:21, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Come back 64.198.97.66. How very fitting if the first verse (2:23) was edited anonymously, sure, there will be protocol for review with later verses, but if you feel the urge and accept the challenge, change the two words suggested, underline "believers" and leave your comment in the temporary (Discussion Start) section for the record. Even more fitting, it would be from the Avalon (High) School of Biblical Research, so well known in eccleciastical circles. - Athrash | {Talk) 03:05, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contact me through my talk page about Modern Translation alternative. Athrash | (Talk) 00:03, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I pasted this contact me notice from one of SimonP pages to another with original time intact and put myself in a box, just wanted to see if I could reproduce it. I'm having an outside the box experience, breaking all the rules. - Athrash | {Talk) 21:53, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wow, the image worked and irony of ironies, everytime a verse is edited, "THE TRUTH" is refreshed. - Athrash | {Talk) 23:26, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Praise God. I transferred everything to WikiChristian with original Wikipedia dates. [[User:Athrash| - Athrash | {Talk) ]] 13:17, 20 Apr 2005 (PDT)

Thanks Dr. Prab, my image would have had copyright problems, this is even better, outstanding, and the caption still represents the quest for the truth in religious modernity or post-modernity which years past may have fragmented. How did you find the verso so quickly, did you notice my initials came off that fragment also. This is monumental, is it possible to put the interlinear text on the image page, not sure about text on those pages? [[User:Athrash| - Athrash | {Talk) ]] 17:13, 20 Apr 2005 (PDT)

I put the Greek from K.C. Hanson translation in Word, (Note: no Greek characters in WikiChristian software) cannot paste to wiki. Will keep working on it and post it to the Image_talk whenever. Anyway, what symbolism, "The Truth" turned out to be a GIF from God. [[User:Athrash| - Athrash | {Talk) ]] 19:09, 20 Apr 2005 (PDT)

Non-denominational

Glad to help, one of the things I'm working on is moving some of the more cumbersome links to easier to find ones (e.g., moving "What does salvation mean?" to simply "salvation" since someone is far more likely to type that into the search bar). ---- 08:36, 26 Apr 2005 (PDT)

Annotation of N.T. (Discussion Start)

Why change the verse? example — 2:23 Judeans do sometimes designate their celebrations as Festivals. Suggest return to original "Feast" and maybe "witnessing" instead of watching miracles. Passover revolves around the food or festive meal, others could be, for example, Celebration of Tabernacles. Athrash 05:58, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

DISCUSSION END — DISCUSSION END — DISCUSSION END — DISCUSSION END — DISCUSSION END

NEW TESTAMENT

MODERNITY VERSION

Reconstructing "THE TRUTH" with P52 Greek Fragment of John 18:37

Gospel of JOHN

verses 1-10 (done)

1 In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things came into being by Him and through His creative power everything was made that was made.

4 In Him was Life and that Life was the Light of the entire human race;

5 for even as the Light shines on in darkness, the darkness has never overtaken it.

6 There appeared a man named John, sent from God as a witness,

7 a witness to testify concerning the Light considering that all might come to believe through Him.

8 John, himself, was not the Light, but did come to bear witness of that Light.

9 The true Light illuminating every person was, then, coming into the world.

10 He was in the world; He made the world, yet, the world did not know Him.

verses 11-20 (done)

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him,

12 though as many as would receive Him − that is, to those who believe in the His name of Jesus − He has given the right to become the children of God,

13 who are not born of blood, not born by physical urge, not born by the will of man, but are those reborn of God [read: the Word].

14 The Word became as man and lived for a time among us, so full of grace and truth that we perceived His glory, glory as of the only born of the Father.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This is He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks ahead of me because He was in all things before me.’ ”

16 And from His abundance we have, every one of us, received grace upon grace.

17 For even though the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18 While no one has ever seen God, the only Son by His very closeness to the Father has made Him known.

19 This is the testimony of John, when the leaders of Judea decided to send priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him who he was.

20 He had to confess and did not deny the truth, but avowed, “I am not the Messiah.”

verses 21-30 (done)

21 They said, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He responded, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, his voice gone, “No.”

22 They continued to ask him, “Who are you, that we may answer those that sent us? What do you say for yourself?”

23 “I am THE VOICE,” he replied, “OF ONE CRYING ALOUD IN THE DESERT, MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAY OF THE LORD” (Isa. 40:3).

24 A delegation of Pharisees was sent, also,

25 And demanded of him, “Why do you baptize, then, if you are not the Messiah or Elijah or the Prophet?”

26 "I baptize in water only," he replied, "but in your midst stands One whom you do not recognize.

27 He who comes after me is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to unlatch."

28 These events occurred in Bethany beyond the river Jordan, where John was baptizing.

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming his way and said, "See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

30 "This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man ranking ahead of me for He was in all things before me.'

verses 31-40 (done)

31 Even if, at first, I did not recognize Him, my purpose in coming was to baptize in water so that He might be revealed to Israel."

32 John testifying further said, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and remain on Him;

33 I did not know who He was, but the One who sent me to baptize in water told me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit coming down and resting is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'

34 This I witnessed while coming to the realization that He is the Son of God."

35 Again, the next day, John was standing with two of his disciples.

36 He looked upon Jesus as He walked by and said as before, "See, the Lamb of God!"

37 After hearing this, the two disciples followed Jesus.

38 Then, Jesus turned and seeing that they followed said, "What is your need?" Their reply, a polite, "Rabbi, (which is to say, Teacher) where are you staying?"

39 He said to them, "Come and see." They went and saw where he stayed and remained there the rest of the day (for it was about four o'clock in the afternoon).

40 One of the two who followed Jesus after John spoke of the Lamb of God was Andrew, the brother of Simon.

verses 41-51 (done)

41 Soon after the meeting with Jesus, Andrew found Simon and told him, "We have found the Messiah" (which is to say, the Christ);

42 He then brought his brother to Jesus who gazing upon him intently said, "You are Simon, son of Jona: You will be called Kepha" (meaning a rock, being translated Peter).

43 The following day Jesus decided to go to Galilee, and found Philip, and said to him, "Follow Me."

44 Now, Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.

45 Philip, in turn, found Nathana-el, and told him, "We have found him, of whom Moses and the Prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

46 Whereupon, Nathana-el said to him, "Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?" Philip replied, "Come and see."

47 Jesus saw Nathana-el coming and exclaimed, "Look! An Israelite, not in name only, but true."

48 Nathana-el asked, "How do you know me?" Jesus answered, "Even before Philip sought you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."

49 Nathana-el said, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."

50 Jesus answered saying, "Because I said, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,' and you believe: What then? If you should see far greater things.

verses 1-4 (done)

1 Two days later there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there.

2 Jesus and His disciples were also invited.

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus said to her son, "They have no wine."

4 Jesus said, "Dear woman, what is it to you or to me. My hour has not yet come."

verses 5-8 (done)

5 His mother instructed the servants, "Whatever He says, do it."

6 Six waterpots of stone were set out in the manner of Judean ceremonial washing, each about twenty gallons.

7 Jesus told the servants, "Fill the pots with water." And they filled them to the brim.

8 Then He said, "Now, take a portion to the table-master." And they did.

verses 9-12 (done)

9 When the master had tasted the water made wine without knowing the source, (albeit, the servants knew), he called the bridegroom:

10 and said, "The usual host at the very beginning serves good wine, and when the guests have drunk freely, then the inferior; but you saved the best until last."

11 Jesus performed this, the first of His [miraculous] signs, at Cana in Galilee; and as He revealed His glory, His disciples believed in Him.

12 After Cana He went down to Capernaum with His mother and brothers, and His disciples; and they spent a few days there.

verses 13-16 (done)

13 Just about this time, the yearly Judean Passover was approaching and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

14 In the temple He found the sellers of oxen and sheep and doves: and the moneychangers were also sitting there.

15 And when He had plaited a whip of rushes, He drove those selling oxen and sheep out of the temple, and poured out the changers' money, and overturned the tables.

16 Then, He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away. Do not make My Father's house, a house of merchandise."

verses 17-20 (done)

17 And His disciples remembered that it was written, “ZEAL FOR GOD'S HOUSE WILL CONSUME ME” (Ps. 69:9).

18 But the Judean hierarchy issued a challenge, "Give us a sign for doing such things."

19 Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

20 The hierarchs replied, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and you will rebuild it in three days?"

verses 21-25 (done)

21 Though, here, He spoke of the temple of His body.

22 So when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the [prophetic] words of Jesus.

23 Now when He was in Jerusalem, at the Festival Feast of the Passover, many became believers in Him through watching witnessing the miracles He performed.

24 Yet, Jesus did not trust Himself to them, because He knew them all,

25 and did not need any one's testimony concerning a man the people, for He of Himself knew what was in the man human nature.

Next John 3:1

Other Comments

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Sorry for the intrusion

I just think it's weird that an ANON has deleted the Death of Jesus page without discussion. It needs a revert ASAP! 70.177.68.209 18:07, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

Clean-up Project

Hello. Two quick things. Firstly, I just want to flag the following page to you WikiChristian:Clean-up. Hopefully you'd like to help out. Secondly, I notice that you haven't had much to do with WikiChristian recently. Are you keen on remaining a Sysop or would you prefer to lose that status? --Graham grove 12:08, 8 October 2008 (PDT)